The QM solutions to the Hydrogen atom give you energy eigenstates. There is a lowest energy. That is the ground state.

 

Claiming that QM does not explain this is ludicrous.

No，Schrödinger equation and E=hv are only assumptions, the solution from them is assumption too.

 

E=hv are only assumptions, the solution from them is assumption too.

See thread

http://www.sciencefo...-const-at-home/

post #5 and #26

how you can calculate Planck const from just a few electronic elements and voltmeter, ampere meter etc.

No，Schrödinger equation and E=hv are only assumptions, the solution from them is assumption too.

Sure, but ths is a well-tested assumption that agrees with nature well. What is the point you are trying to make?

The mathematical results are ringht, but I need the interpretation in physics.

 

No，Schrödinger equation and E=hv are only assumptions, the solution from them is assumption too.

You can't ask for a QM explanation and then reject it because it uses QM.

 

The mathematical results are ringht, but I need the interpretation in physics.

QM is part of physics.

 

You can't ask for a QM explanation and then reject it because it uses QM.

 

QM is part of physics.

I think the mathematical methods in QM are effect, but some new concepts are wrong.

I want to express: It is serious mistake for us to deny Classical theories.

Edited by Jeremy0922, 23 July 2014 - 12:13 PM.

 

The mathematical results are ringht, but I need the interpretation in physics.

But you reject the interpretation.

I want to express: It is serious mistake for us to deny Classical theories.

Ah. Bless.

No one is denying classical theories where they are appropriate.

As you are not able to show that classical theories can explain the photoelectric effect, black body spectrum, the nature of electron orbitals, entanglement, etc. etc. I think we can simply ignore your wishes.

 

I think the mathematical methods in QM are effect, but some new concepts are wrong.

 

I want to express: It is serious mistake for us to deny Classical theories.

If the classical theories do not match experiment, it is imperative that you deny them.

Clinging to models that are demonstrably wrong puts you outside of science. There is no "us" in this case. There is you, and there is the group doing science.

 

If the classical theories do not match experiment, it is imperative that you deny them.

 

Clinging to models that are demonstrably wrong puts you outside of science. There is no "us" in this case. There is you, and there is the group doing science.

The "two puzzle cloud" that deny classical theory is a mistake.  Schrödinger equation and E=hv, which are mathematic tool to be applied to solve the linear spectrum of H atom, could be deduced from classical theory.

Therefore, the structure and the spectrum of the hydrogen atom can be solved by Classial theory. I insist It is serious mistake for us to deny Classical theories.

Edited by Jeremy0922, 23 July 2014 - 02:25 PM.

Then I refer you back to my challenge to deduce that atomic structure of Hydrogen, including the Hyperfine and Zeeman splittings, with the ground state having a nonzero angular momentum. Predict what the electric dipole moment should be. Things that have to be any part of a classical model of Hydrogen. Compare those numbers to experiment. That's what science is. Go do it.

 

The "two puzzle cloud" that deny classical theory is a mistake.

Just saying that doesn't help. You need to show that classical theory can reproduce all the same results as quantum theory (i.e. that the predictions of classical theory matches reality).

 

I insist It is serious mistake for us to deny Classical theories.

You can insist on whatever you want. Without evidence, no one is going to take you seriously.

Discussion on the ground state of the hydrogen atom, there is a different from the mainstream theory here.  

link deleted

Discussion on the ground state of the hydrogen atom, there is a different from the mainstream theory here.  

link deleted

Then I refer you back to my challenge to deduce that atomic structure of Hydrogen, including the Hyperfine and Zeeman splittings, with the ground state having a nonzero angular momentum. Predict what the electric dipole moment should be. Things that have to be any part of a classical model of Hydrogen. Compare those numbers to experiment. That's what science is. Go do it.

Hyperfine and Zeeman splitting are the phenomenon of spectrum of atom. The atom spectrum is the experimental result of electromagnetic radiation caused by exciting atoms.

1. It is necessary for the outer field to excite atom;

2. The determine result of spectrum is caused by a large numberof exciting atoms.

By classical orbit conception, it is easy to understand the magnetic moments caused by orbital movement of charged particles in the atoms. There are two rotation directions, clockwise and counterclockwise referring to the outer field, then the magnetic moments interacts with the outer field are different for these two situation. The interaction is the reason to occur hyperfine and splitting of the atom spectrum.

a) If the outer field has only the effect to provide supplements to balance energy loss caused by moving charged particles at higher level eigen-orbits. We could get the hyperfine structure of spectrum;

b) When the outer field not only has the effect of balance energy loss, also has the effect to change the eigen-orbit, we could observe the spectrum splitting, including Zeeman effect and Stark effect under the appropriate conditions of outer electromagnetic field.

Inaddition, if the electron rotates along the orbit face to face of the proton, will spins a circle after a orbit period referring to center of mass coordinate of the atom. the effect by the magnetic moment should also be consider for above situations.  

That is my initial answer about your questions.

Edited by Jeremy0922, 26 July 2014 - 03:58 AM.

Can you at least outline a calculation here? We can all consult a QM book for the quantum mechanics descriptions, but what about your classical calculations?

It will takes some time to do them, but I think the mathematical method should be consistentwith that of quantum mechanics.

a) If the outer field has only the effect to provide supplements to balance energy loss caused by moving charged particles at higher level eigen-orbits. We could get the hyperfine structure of spectrum;

 
That field is not a source of energy that you can use to replenish losses, even in classical physics. And continual energy loss from moving orbits is not observed. Only the quantized energy from transitions between states.
 
 

b) When the outer field not only has the effect of balance energy loss, also has the effect to change the eigen-orbit, we could observe the spectrum splitting, including Zeeman effect and Stark effect under the appropriate conditions of outer electromagnetic field.
 
Inaddition, if the electron rotates along the orbit face to face of the proton, will spins a circle after a orbit period referring to center of mass coordinate of the atom. the effect by the magnetic moment should also be consider for above situations.  
 
That is my initial answer about your questions.

 

It will takes some time to do them, but I think the mathematical method should be consistentwith that of quantum mechanics.

Yes, do the calculation. That's what I have been asking for.

 
That field is not a source of energy that you can use to replenish losses, even in classical physics. And continual energy loss from moving orbits is not observed. Only the quantized energy from transitions between states.
 

The static field can not , but the periodic or variale field can do it.

The static field can not , but the periodic or variale field can do it.