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The recent Chinese podcast from Guangmi's quarterly report on large language models, discussing the "scaling paradigm shift" toward AGI (Artificial General Intelligence), is well worth a listen. It touches on many key topics related to the AI industry landscape, offering a unique perspective and style.

The term "paradigm shift" may sound a bit dramatic, but as a seasoned analyst, Guangmi uses it to describe the current turbulent landscape accurately. While the AI arms race among industry giants is still in full swing, real-world scalable applications of these models are struggling to materialize. The question of how to justify investments has become a significant pressure point, or perhaps even a looming bubble.

Let's revisit some AI basics. There are three main types of learning in LLMs (Large Language Models):

(i) supervised learning;(ii) unsupervised learning (self-learning/pre-training); and(iii) reinforcement learning (RL, self-play/post-training).

Ilya has emphasized the importance of RL in exploring new directions for LLMs. Guangmi's podcast highlights RL as the pathway to the paradigm shift in AGI through large models.

Historically, two key milestones in RL have stood out: AlphaZero's victory over human Go players, which shocked the world, and RLHF (Reinforcement Learning from Human Feedback), which aligned models with human preferences and paved the way for ChatGPT’s explosive growth.

Currently, discussions revolve around the potential of a new RL-driven ecosystem for large models (though there's no broad consensus—it's primarily a conversation within small Silicon Valley circles) and the emerging trends in the "arms race" of large models. Here’s the context:

1. Pre-training scaling seems to have hit a bottleneck, with GPT-5 still unreleased;2. The overall momentum of the arms race remains unchanged among the major players (the billionaire clubs/giants);3. Key tech figures are proposing new roadmaps or trying to construct new scaling laws to continue the AGI journey.

Guangmi closely monitors trends in Silicon Valley. His small team conducts in-depth research in the Bay Area and has established extensive contacts. Having chatted with them over coffee a couple of times, I’ve found them to be a dynamic, young team under his leadership—a small but sharp presence.

Guangmi’s thoughts are well-structured, and his breadth of knowledge and understanding of the larger context are impressive. This is no small feat, as the landscape of large models, both in terms of the models themselves and the industry, is often akin to the parable of the blind men and the elephant. Even top experts and business leaders struggle to assess the full picture. Just recently, Meta’s Zuckerberg responded to a question about whether the AI arms race would deliver the expected AGI returns, essentially saying: “No one really knows, but we can’t afford to miss out,” reflecting a typical FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) mindset.

We’re currently in a delicate phase with little consensus. However, the few tech giants that have propelled Nvidia’s stock to astronomical levels won’t allow the arms race to slow anytime soon, as it is central to their tech and business dominance. OpenAI continues to raise funds, and Ilya, with his new company, recently secured more investment, all of which keeps the race heated.

At the same time, the obsession with scaling among tech elites and the mainstream AGI circles in Silicon Valley persists. The endless demand for resources driven by this scaling wave of large models means that only a small circle of tech insiders has the opportunity and resources to experiment, sense, and adjust the roadmap.

According to Guangmi, the so-called self-play RL scaling is currently gaining traction within a small circle of about 200 tech elites in Silicon Valley, indicating that this is still a nascent trend—one that even management leaders have not fully aligned with yet.

It seems Guangmi adopts a “prophet” mentality at times, perhaps exaggerating this trend to alert his audience. He even suggests that if he were a large-model entrepreneur, he would focus 200% of resources on RL, betting on it as the future path to victory.

In reality, for most people, this advice is neither practical nor actionable—it’s likely aimed at tech giants or unicorns, though even for them, it may fall on deaf ears.

Reinforcement learning is inherently challenging. Even the open-source leader Meta LLaMA 3 has chosen to sidestep RLHF in post-training alignment. So, it's even less realistic to expect large-model teams to fully bet on RL as the core of a new ecosystem. Furthermore, this trend is, at best, a “subtle undercurrent” in Silicon Valley. We’ll likely have to wait until OpenAI’s “Strawberry” or the new version of Claude releases later this year to fully assess its impact.

It seems the first chapter of LLM scaling has indeed come to an end. The actionable items in the so-called second chapter might not emerge from lofty, exploratory scaling directions with an uncertain roadmap. Instead, the focus should be on finding market entry points, accelerating applications, and addressing genuine market needs (PMF, product-market fit), especially as the inference costs of top models like GPT-4o/Claude 3.5 become more affordable, and multimodal capabilities (such as advancements in hyper-realistic full-duplex voice and video) further enhance application opportunities.

For the industry, the bottleneck in scaling large-model applications is the sword hanging over its future. This will determine whether the second chapter of the tech adoption curve ends with a soft landing and eventual recovery. As for the arms race, it’s best to leave that to Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, and the billionaire club to continue playing.

Reinforcement learning, as an extension of pre-training, belongs to the realm of “post-training.” When pre-training hits bottlenecks and diminishing returns, strengthening RL is a natural complement. In the simulation of human cognition, pre-training represents the accumulated knowledge of human civilization, while RL applies that knowledge in practice, learning from the environment. This overall approach to intelligent learning makes perfect sense and is the necessary direction for applying large models.

My old friend Lu said: “It’s intuitive that RL is the path we must take because there isn’t enough supervised learning data anymore.”

Indeed, utilizing regenerated data to varying degrees has become common practice. It’s inevitable. Models can already generate data of higher quality than humans, and this will only improve. However, this is not the same as self-play's proactive exploration and data regeneration.

As Mr. Mao pointed out: “RL aligns with the cognitive processes of humans and epistemology. It’s essentially the process of receiving external feedback and being tested in practice. RL is active learning, while training is passive.”

Guangmi's RL paradigm shift suggestion still lacks the necessary catalysts. But this potential trend is worth keeping in mind. It’s best to remain cautiously optimistic and open-minded while watching how things unfold.

Related original:

大模型风云诡谲的下半场：scaling 失效？

The Turbulent Second Chapter of Large Language Models: Has Scaling Stalled?