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NATURE上韩春雨NgAgo评论(2)

已有 7776 次阅读 2016-8-10 05:39 |个人分类:反民科|系统分类:论文交流

《自然》杂志网站:
Replications, ridicule and a recluse: the controversy over NgAgo gene-editing intensifies
(重复、嘲讽与隐士:NgAgo 基因编辑风波越演越烈)。

链接: http://www.nature.com/news/replications-ridicule-and-a-recluse-the-controversy-over-ngago-gene-editing-intensifies-1.20387

我在上面的最新评论如下:

BURGIO实验的失败是对韩春雨论文的部分验证。韩的论文指出只有当 NgAgo 蛋白在表达时导引才能被装载,他明示的流程是在 NgAgo 之后 多次转染 gDNA。逻辑上,根据韩春雨的论文,如果只是同时注入两者,则非常可能失败(否则韩为什么要强调先后)。BURGIO博士一次性地同时将 NgAgo 与 gDNA 注入老鼠受精卵,新的鼠种没有横空出世令人失望(注一)。但这正是我们从阅读韩春雨论文应该期待的结果。

迄今为止,只有两位实名人士在中国站出来针对韩,一个是方舟子,另外一人我在前面没有提到名字。如我之前所说,两人都已经被完全否定为缺乏可信度。如上所述,目前唯一被完整报道的实验 -- BURGIO博士的 -- 实际验证了韩的一个发现(韩说要多次,BURGIO发现一次不行)

匿名网络团伙在中国互联网上有组织性的对韩攻击破坏了正常的科学与社会规范。理智者很容易看出他们所谓推理的逻辑断链。匿名ID们传说的各种匪夷所思之事在中国被迅速斥责为纯粹的造谣与中伤。但是当他们将其非逻辑的构造物通过互联网传播出去,那些轻信之人或许会把他们拙劣的编剧当成内幕消息。当心点吧!


注一:BURGIO并未等到老鼠发育成型,这句话不能字母理解


The failure of the Burgio experiment is actually a partial validation of Han's paper. Han theorized that the guides can be loaded only when NgAgo is in expression, and he taught the procedure of multiple transfection of gDNA post NgAgo. Logically, according to Han, if one loads both the same time, he or she is very likely to fail. Dr. Burgio co-injected the NgAgo and gDNA once simultaneously into mouse zygotes, and was disappointed when a new breed failed to emerge. But this is exactly what one would expect from reading Han's paper.

So far, only two named people spoke up against Han in China, one is Shimin Fang, the other I mentioned but withheld the name. Both have been thoroughly discredited, as I explained in the previous comment. As discussed above, the only fully reported experiment, that of Dr. Burgio, served to prove one of Han's findings.

The orchestrated attacks on Han in Chinese cyberspace by a small anonymous gang is disruptive of scientific and societal norms. A rational person can easily identify the logical breakdown in their deductions. The incredible stories told by these anonymous IDs are quickly dismissed as pure fabrication and defamation in China. Yet as they spread the products of their illogical minds across the internet, the gullible may regard their crude fiction as insider information. Beware.



我在上面之前的评论如下(英译中):

下面是我对中国发生的有关韩氏 NgAgo 激烈辩论的一个总结。

1. 方舟子鲁莽的作假指控仅仅是由于他未能理解韩的论文及分子生物概念不清。方舟子的一个超级粉丝都向他指出他对论文中电泳图的解读错误。方还把基因编辑靶点的距离当成了DNA片段的大小差。

2. 另外一个实名人士(方的主要信息来源)在网上的直接辩论中丧失可信度,因为未考虑 NgAgo 的剪切机制(在靶点附近去掉多达20个核苷酸)。

3. 正如韩的论文所说, NgAgo 蛋白只有在表达时才能装载导引。澳洲BURGIO博士承认他没有按照韩论文中重点强调的程序操作(那又怎么能成功?)

至此,所谓作假的指控已被证明为缺乏根据。一次成功的重复就足以定性地证明韩的结果。但愿对韩的怀疑与嘲讽将引发更多的好奇与研究并得出更为确定的答案,而不是因为误导而放弃一个可能具有巨大潜力的基因编辑工具。



The following is a summary of some very heated debate in China on the Han NgAgo paper.

1. Fang's rash accusation of fraud was a mere result of his misunderstandings of the Han paper and molecular biology in general. Even one of Fang's ardent supporters pointed out to him that he misinterpreted the electrophoresis bands presented in the paper. Fang further mistook distances between target sites for DNA segment size deltas.

2. Another named person, who was Fang's main source, has been discredited in a direct online debate, for failing to consider NgAgo's effect of removing 1 to 20 nts at the target site.

3. As stated in Han's paper, the guide can be loaded only when the NgAgo protein is in the process of expression. Dr. Burgio admitted that he did not follow a starred procedure in Han's published protocol.

Thus far, the accusations of fraud have been shown to be unfounded. A single successful replication is sufficient to qualitatively vindicate Han's result. Hopefully, the suspicion and ridicule will trigger more curiosity and research to bring about more definitive answers, instead of misguided abandonment of a potentially potent tool for gene editing.






韩春雨事件
http://blog.sciencenet.cn/blog-684007-995534.html

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