经典句子

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtycr1DxSHg

Nobel Laureate Randy Schekman discusses high-impact factor journals

so the most important thing I would say for you is not necessarily having your paper in nature, science, or cell, but having it out, so that people can see and evaluate the importance of your work, and the problem with the business plan of journals like nature cell and science is that in looking for articles are going to generate a lot of buzz, they have a review process that extends the time that it takes to get the work published because they're looking frankly for any excuse to reject the paper

所以最重要的事情不一定是在自然、科学、或细胞发文，而是把它发表出来，以便人们可以看到和评估你的工作的重要性，而《自然》、《细胞》和《科学》等期刊是商业运作的，它们寻找大佬的文章以便在引用方面会产生很多轰动。他们寻找任何拒绝论文的借口使审稿过程 漫长。

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF7x7m-0-Tg

Can I trust what’s written in scientific journals? Nobel Laureate Tim Hunt

the data are right but the interpretation is the thing you have to question yeah

数据是对的，但对数据的解释是你必须质疑。

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视频文件

============

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtycr1DxSHg

Nobel Laureate Randy Schekman discusses high-impact factor journals

 Nobel Laureate Randy Schekman discusses high-impact factor journals.mp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YETmLPgeGT8

"There's a lot of rubbish published in high-profile journals" Paul Nurse, Nobel Laureate

 https://blog.sciencenet.cn/home.php?mod=attachment&id=1194009

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEWxWKXoCDU

Why 'Publish Or Perish' Slows Down Science Progress || NeuroBeer Clips

https://blog.sciencenet.cn/home.php?mod=attachment&id=1194010

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF7x7m-0-Tg

Can I trust what’s written in scientific journals? Nobel Laureate Tim Hunt

Can I trust what’s written in scientific journals- Nobel Laureate Tim Hunt.mp4

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扩展阅读

==============

http://finance.sina.com.cn/hy/20131119/105717365753.shtml

 http://finance.sina.com.cn/hy/20131119/105717365756.shtml

创新就是大部分人都不认同的想法

 https://www.wenmi.com/article/puj98i03nn9k.html

 多数人认同的不叫创新

 https://www.yicai.com/news/5345088.html

创新没有风口，凡是追逐风口的行为都不是创新

https://www.sass.org.cn/_s3/_t31/2008/1229/c1201a26145/page.psp

 但“创新”意味着与众不同，公认的东西往往是常识

 https://news.ifeng.com/c/7fcJvZmKtue

 学术评价与学术程序的质量都取决于学术共同体的质量 颠覆传统理论的创新会在高引论文中产生吗？有那么高共识的论文能是颠覆性创新吗？

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/AyrjTS71DImtO3HQy-irfw

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英汉对照 （机器翻译）

==============

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtycr1DxSHg

Nobel Laureate Randy Schekman discusses high-impact factor journals

and it's simply not true by the way that

you have to have a paper in cell nature

你必须有一篇关于细胞自然

and science to get it to get a job there

和科学的论文才能找到工作，这根本不是真的，

are many people who have you know in

有很多你认识的人

issued the publication's and these are

发表了出版物，而这些人

long before I did my campaign and who

早在我开展竞选活动之前就已经发表了

have done very well and and postdocs who

做得很好，

come to my lab know that we won't even

来我实验室的博士后知道我们甚至不会

be discussing that subject and they've

讨论这个主题，他们

done well they've gotten jobs I have a

做得很好，他们找到了工作。我有一个

terrific postdoc who on the strength of

很棒的博士后，凭借

two papers in this new journal I've got

这本新期刊上的两篇论文 我获得了

a k99 award from the IH was there you

IH 颁发的 k99 奖，这是

know a rare privilege so I think with

一种罕见的特权，所以我想随着

time and experience people will see that

时间和经验的推移，人们会发现

they don't have to publish in the in the

他们不必在

in journals like that that so I'm I'm

这样的期刊上发表文章，所以我就是我。 我

trying to wean people from that almost

试图让人们摆脱那种近乎

narcotic that they had you know they had

麻醉的感觉，他们让你知道他们让

you know they have to publish in these

你知道他们必须在这些

journals it just isn't so the most

期刊上发表，但事实并非如此，所以

important thing I would say for you is

我要对你说的最重要的事情

not necessarily having your paper in

不一定是在

nature science or cell but having it out

自然科学或 细胞，但把它拿出来，

so that people can see and evaluate the

以便人们可以看到和评估

importance of your work and the problem

你的工作的重要性，而《自然细胞》和《科学》

with the business plan of journals like

等期刊的商业计划的问题

nature cell and science is that in

是，在

looking for articles are going to

寻找文章时会

generate a lot of buzz they have a

产生很多轰动，他们有一个

review process that extends the time

审查过程 这延长了

that it takes to get the work published

发表作品所需的时间，

because they're looking frankly for any

因为他们坦率地寻找任何

excuse to reject the paper

拒绝论文的借口

===============

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF7x7m-0-Tg

Can I trust what’s written in scientific journals? Nobel Laureate Tim Hunt

when I was an undergraduate the

当我还是一名本科生时，

professor of biochemistry said don't

生物化学教授说不要

believe what you read especially if it's

相信你读到的内容，尤其是

in a review and I think that's pretty

在评论中，我认为这是一个

good advice actually in general the

很好的建议，实际上一般来说，

primary literature is true but you know

主要文献是真实的，但你知道

the interpretation of course you know

当然你知道

the data are right but the

数据的解释 是的，但

interpretation is the thing you have to

解释是你必须

question yeah

质疑的事情是的

===========

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEWxWKXoCDU

Why 'Publish Or Perish' Slows Down Science Progress || NeuroBeer Clips

but you're talking about how like  science is slow and the media is fast  yeah uh there's also this issue in  science right now  where because it is this published in  perish  or published paradigm or both  yeah publish and perish  this is why this is why i'm a bot  apparently  uh but because there is this like highly  competitive nature and it's also like  like baby titles is that there's often  being pushed through  potentially less good papers but that  are  glitzy are using like uh really  high profile designs and just they're  pushing through  science that isn't necessarily as well  done as it could be so science is moving  faster all the time and that's an issue  so like science is moving toward  to to be more like like the media like  the way that we  yeah business yeah and that's that's a  problem  like the problem is like how do you  create a model where  you reward those who do slow good  science  it used to be that way we didn't used to  have these publication  i mean way before all of our times for  sure but back  you know before the 80s and 90s there  weren't these publication quotas that  scientists had to hit  where can i get more productivity in in  order to try to get that next  publication in just so i can look that  much better on that job application  because there truly is just so much  competition hundreds almost  sometimes thousands of applications for  a single position  yeah well even just to get grants the  the amount i mean you know  so so roger you mentioned tenure right  so the reason that we have tenure  is to try to avoid this issue right  because it doesn't like once you get  tenure  you can publish or not publish whatever  you want because  your job is safe you know there's no  publisher parish anymore  but the funding agencies are the ones  that are really  gatekeeping i guess you know through the  the competition for these highly  competitive grants  do you think scientists with fast  science the the celebrity science comes  in  back in the 40s and 50s even earlier  going into the 60s even i guess you  would have  research papers that were published  articles peer-reviewed that  could fit on one sheet of paper yeah  abstract  intro results discussion references  everything's there maybe two pages or  three pages is a  long part of the best ones to read  though honestly  if you ever read like classical articles  in your field and be like  i could do this in two months oh i know  i wish i was there for this yeah  but of course it wasn't at the time but  it seems in retrospect like  oh man i could this is like a locomotion  activity experiment and publish in  nature  i don't have to go into a specific brain  region i can just systemically  administer this right yeah exactly  you're meant to get like this really  important paper  yeah back in the 40s and 50s it seemed  like we were getting more  progress out of neuroscience specific  research we had this explosion in terms  of  ssris and different you know  neuropsychiatric treatments or drugs  that we could administer to patients  do you think that we would get more  value in doing smaller experiments but  being certain about what we're  finding instead of doing this a chain of  events in order to say  oh it's this potentially or this or that  or that or that  well i know there's i read somewhere i  would i'll have to try to find it for  you uh but there is  some data suggesting that industry  leaders like people who are not in  academia who are those who are those  actually on the translational side of  drug development or whatever actually  get more use out of smaller journal  articles  than your nature and your science  articles as they're  more they're more to the point it's not  like  i i i can publish null results in those  journals yeah  and uh and like i've heard i've i've  heard through the grapevine i have never  never submitted to this  i shouldn't talk about the journal  anyway there are some journals that you  uh  submit to and basically like no matter  the quality of your work  you're going to be asked for a follow-up  experiment you're always going to be  asked for additional data  and like that's and it's not necessarily  like your data was bad it's just like oh  they want  this slant to the story so people are  attacking on experiments that  yeah make sense with how they're writing  it but don't  make sense for the main findings  it's almost like they want to confirm  the editors  or the reviewers point of view and they  don't actually care about the legitimate  science you know and it's just sort of  like okay this has been  they're basically like side experiments  that are related enough but just to like  fit some tiny pieces of the puzzle  instead of being ones that are really  key  to  so many layers to this 

但是你说的是

科学是缓慢的，而媒体是快速的，是的，

科学现在也存在这个问题，

因为它是在教区

或出版范式中发布的，或者

是的，发布和降落伞

这就是为什么这个 这就是为什么我显然是一个机器人，

呃，但是因为存在这种高度

竞争的性质，而且也

像婴儿标题一样，经常

被推过可能不太好的论文，但这些论文很

耀眼，正在使用像呃非常

高调的设计，而且只是 他们正在

推动科学，但不一定

做得那么好，所以科学一直在

更快地发展，这是一个问题，

所以科学正在

变得更像媒体，

就像我们

一样 是的，这就是一个问题，

就像问题一样，你如何

创建一个模型，

奖励那些缓慢而良好的科学的人，过去

我们没有这样的出版物，

我的意思是在我们所有的时代之前

当然，但你知道，在 80 年代和 90 年代之前，

科学家们并没有达到这些出版配额，

我可以在哪里获得更高的生产力，

以便尝试获得下一份

出版物，这样我就可以

在这方面看起来更好 工作申请，

因为确实存在如此多的竞争，一个职位的竞争确实如此之大，

数百甚至有时数千人申请

一个职位是的，

即使只是为了获得补助金，

我的意思是你知道所以所以

罗杰你提到了终身教职，

所以我们拥有终身教职的原因

是 尽量避免这个问题，

因为一旦你获得

终身教职，

你就可以发表或不发表任何

你想要的东西，因为

你的工作是安全的，你知道不再有

出版商教区了，

但资助机构才是

真正把关的人，我猜 你知道，通过

这些竞争激烈的资助的竞争，

你认为拥有快速

科学的科学家、名人科学可以

追溯到 40 年代和 50 年代，甚至更早

进入 60 年代，即使我猜你

会有研究论文发表在

同行文章中 - 评论

可以写在一张纸上是的，摘要介绍

结果讨论参考

所有内容可能有两页或

三页是最好的内容的很长一部分，

但老实说，

如果您曾经阅读过您

所在领域的经典文章并且像

我一样 两个月内做这件事哦，我知道

我希望我能在那里，是的，

但当然当时不是，但

回想起来，天哪，我可以，这就像一个运动

活动实验，并在《自然》杂志上发表，

我不这样做 不必进入特定的大脑区域，我可以系统地

管理这个权利，是的，正是

你应该得到这篇非常

重要的论文，是的，

早在 40 年代和 50 年代，

我们似乎从神经科学的具体

研究中取得了更多进展，我们 在ssris 和不同的

神经精神治疗或药物方面出现了爆炸式增长，

我们可以对患者进行治疗，

您认为我们

通过进行较小的实验会获得更多价值，但

要确定我们所

发现的内容，而不是进行一系列的实验

事件，为了说哦，这可能是这个，那个，那个，

或者那个，

我知道我在某个地方读到过，我将不得不

尝试为你找到它，呃，但有

一些数据表明，行业

领导者喜欢这样的人 不是在

学术界，而是那些实际上从事

药物开发转化方面的人，或者实际上

从较小的期刊文章中得到更多利用的人，而不是

你的自然和科学

文章，因为

它们更重要，但不是

就像我一样，我可以在这些期刊上发表无效结果，

是的，呃，就像我听说过的，我是

通过小道消息听说的，我从来

没有提交过这个期刊，

无论如何，我不应该谈论该期刊，有一些期刊，你

嗯，基本上就像无论

你的工作质量如何，

你都会被要求进行后续实验，你总是会被

要求提供额外的数据，就像这样，这并不一定是

你的数据不好，而是 就像哦，

他们希望故事有这种倾向，所以人们正在

攻击那些对他们的写作方式有意义

但对主要发现没有意义的实验，

这几乎就像他们想确认编辑

或审稿人的观点一样 的观点，他们

实际上并不关心你

所知道的合法科学，这只是有点

像好吧，他们基本上就像

是相关性足够的副实验，但只是为了

适应拼图的一些小部分

而不是 这些

对于这个的很多层面来说都是非常关键的