dsm9393的个人博客分享 http://blog.sciencenet.cn/u/dsm9393

博文

人的大脑真的接近电脑吗? -----与剑桥大学研究员的互动

已有 652 次阅读 2020-2-15 17:39 |个人分类:博客|系统分类:博客资讯| 人脑, 电脑, 剑桥大学, CHAO-YANG CHI, 人类工程学

人的大脑真的接近电脑吗

-----与剑桥大学研究员的互动

都世民(Du Shimin

摘要:本文主要讨论人的大脑真的接近电脑吗?这一观点来自于剑桥大学的一位研究员CHAO-YANG CHI。本文首先阐述,笔者看到剑桥大学在领英网站的窗口,介绍他们一项新的研究成果,发表在《美国国家科学院院刊》(PNAS)。对此提出一些疑问,参与这项研究的研究员很快给我回复,我们之间进行了互动,他提出了一些看法,对此进行有关讨论。

关键词:人脑,电脑剑桥大学,CHAO-YANG CHI,人类工程学

剑桥大学的一项成果介绍

剑桥大学在领英网站的“窗口”有一项介绍:根据发表在《美国国家科学院院刊》(PNAS)上的一项新研究,在青少年时期新的大脑网络上线,使青少年能够具有更复杂的成人社交技能,但也可能增加他们患精神疾病的风险。在青少年时期能否获得新的、更成熟的技能,取决于大脑区域之间新的连接方式的形成,随着人们年龄的增长,首先通过新的大脑网络在线传递高级社交和其他技能。

介绍中指出:青春期是人生发生重大变化的时期,社会和认知能力以及独立性都在不断提高,但是患精神性疾病的风险也在增加。虽然观測到的大脑的这些变化,能反映大脑的发育可是人们从儿童成长到年轻时的过程中,大脑的功能是怎样变得成熟的,目前还不清楚。

剑桥大学的研究人员用功能磁共振成像技术对大脑功能之间的联系进行观测,他们感到是很棘手因为受试者有最轻微的头动也会影响观测数据这对于青少年很难保证头部一点都不动。对此他们使用了三种不同的方法从数据中去除头部运动的影响,并获得了一致的结果,由此得出的结论与头动无关,而是与青少年大脑的发育有关。

https://bit.ly/37D2jRa

我的疑问和思考

2020210日笔者写了以下回复:

Your work is based on people who have brain structures, and the division of labor in the brain is related to the various regions of the brain, and your conclusions are based on that premise. I have a question, if there is no brain, can your conclusion still hold? I have written an article for your criticism and correction.

Brainless people question us AI expert kurzweil?

http://blog.sciencenet.cn/home.php?mod=space&uid=1339385&do=blog&id=1214225

 

CHAO-YANG CHI Inventor and researcher  reply

Until now, the Homo sapiens race has indeed been active at an alarming rate in the past 2000 years, and the characteristics and structural characteristics of the Euclidean spiral have been more empirically confirmed in the neighboring centuries, which is extremely relevant to astronomy, and at the same time The empirical evidence of neural and wave conduction based on quantum information, nanometers, and computer engineering also makes this theory more accurate. At this point, these theories are facing the effect of a human gap, but scientists must still praise the research based on physical properties. This enabled the next generation to unfold. As usual, the theory of BC and Rome is still active. I am also studying this project, because in our generation, we should compensate for the crisis brought about by the Industrial Revolution, Formally announced the development based on human engineering. thank you

 

2020211日笔者再次回复:

Thank you for your reply againI ask the question, is the one without the brain has nothing to do with the machinenot electronic people also not a robotbut a real person he doesn't have the brain structureonly the cerebrospinal fluid and bloodbut he was able to birth work and studyin this premise your research methodsnot practical universalityhat is, I don't doubt your conclusion my question has nothing to do with human engineering and quantum mechanics does not matteryou may not see the blog I wroteI'll send a link, please take time to look at youyou will understand the meaning of my questions

My blog is in ChineseI wonder if you can understandIf you don't understandI will translate for you.

Why are brainless people not blind?

http://blog.sciencenet.cn/home.php?mod=space&uid=1339385&do=blog&id=1215514

https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2608312&extra=

 

CHAO-YANG CHI Inventor and researcher  reply again

Based on wave signals, human learning has changed fundamentally. Among them, the larger and more obvious feature is "appearance". We clearly understand that the so-called everything passes through the effects of waves and frequencies and passes through the eyes and sight Cone, vestibule, brain and other neuron receptors are thus defined or called by humans. From the beginning of that year, the company officially announced the use of "flat design" on mobile devices. Adaptation with large-scale means that after that year, large-scale integration of humans and virtual reality has ushered in large-scale learning changes, and based on the molecular field and deeper discussion, the effect continues. Based on the discussion of language and text, this ushered in an unimaginable change. In summary: Physics-based waves and the reactions they participate in are evolving humans, and are based on the largest transformation since discovery, while human definitions are being rewritten. We must be prepared, because according to history and past events, human catastrophe is no less than change. For example, the Internet and computers: In just a few decades, the diseases created and derived from Still the scale of the disaster.

 

2020212日笔者再次回复:

Thank you for your reply again,

Your reply has nothing to do with my question. I want to clarify my question again:

1) the paper and the related introduction, you first mentioned the network of the brain, it refers to people with brain structure, but there are a few in the world have no brain structure of people, these people are called without the brain, which means their brains not map the brain network structure, research methods and conclusions, you said can also set up?

2) as you mentioned in your article, vision, movement and other basic abilities in the brain are related to brain regions. In people without a brain, their brain does not have the problem of brain regions. Then how can human vision, movement and other functions be related? Is your method of observation still applicable?

3) there is a region of the brain important for higher social skills that doesn't exist for people without a brain. How do you think about your research methods?

4) functional magnetic resonance imaging (fmri) is used to study the connections between brain functions. This method can see the changes between brain regions in people with brain structures, but it is not known what the information between these brain regions is. How do they relate at the micro level? Also invisible. But in people without brains, these regions don't exist, and what does fmri see?  I don't think you studied that. Because there are no published studies on this. The problems I'm talking about are real people and have nothing to do with robots.

5) at present, the study of the brain in the world, it is believed that the brain dominates the overall change of people, but who will dominate the brain? Is there a soul?

 

CHAO-YANG CHI Inventor and researcher  reply again

Based on the existing research evidence, information and matter are still the key to the brain's function, but this is also the evidence that humans and robots are closer. At the same time, while the organism is gradually transforming into engineering, humans have indeed broken the shackles. Already equipped with a highly integrated thinking of robots, at the same time, methods have been proposed. Waves and particles dominate the brain, and the soul is a humane and literary part.

 

2020213日笔者再次回复:

You've repeatedly replied that you've been avoiding people without brains, which means you don't know much about people without brains, so you don't have to discuss it.You always associate people and robots together, and think that the human brain is very close to the computer, which is mainly reflected in information and material two aspects, please:

1) is human energy electric energy? No! Robot energy is electrical energy. Human energy can work for over 100 years, but robots can't. That's one of the differences.

2) there is a lot of blood in the human brain, but not in the robot, which is the difference between two,

3) there is 70% water in the human body, cerebrospinal fluid. There is no water in the robot, and there is no cerebrospinal fluid. This is the third difference.

4) does the human brain have software? Robot brain has software and hardware, hardware is material, software is not material, robot software is written by people, and the human brain if there is software, who is written? And there's no evidence that human brains have software! That's the fourth difference...

In a word, I don't think the human brain is close to the brain of a robot, because there is an essential difference between the two, and people's conscious thinking is still unclear.  As for the robot having a mind, it is not realistic, having a plan does not mean it can be realized.

互动中的收获与思考

笔者在与剑桥大学研究人员互动中,一方面提出自己的疑问和想法,同时从他们的回复中也学习到一些新的知识。过去对“人类工程学”不了解,从他们的回复中得知了这一信息,从百度网做了初步查询:

人类工程学:亦称人机学工效学。是运用生理学心理学和其他有关学科知识,使机器和人相互适应,创造舒适和安全的环境条件,从而提高工效的一门学科。它根据人机系统的目的、要素、功能等,考虑人的生理、心理因素,考虑外部环境对人与机器的影响,将系统具有的功能适当地分配为人和机器两部分,从而使人操作简便、省力、准确,使人的工作环境舒适、安全,使人机系统的工作效率最高。它以人-机关系为研究的对象,以实测、统计、分析为基本的研究方法。这对于小宇宙的探索,是应该关注的新学科。这是二战以来兴起的一门学科。

另外从他们的回复中,有一个观点我不太理解,这就是人脑接近于电脑。过去从计算机的著作中,有一些作者认为人的大脑接近于电脑,有的加上了有机和无机的区别,而且研究人脑的方法,似乎一定要用电脑的方法来解决。

研究人脑不能离开电脑,因为要给人脑建立数学模型,需要计算和分析,这就需要借助于电脑,但是研究人脑能不能够用研究电脑的方法来替代?没有想到的是,研究大脑的生物学家也认为人脑接近于电脑。到底人脑与电脑有没有本质上的区别?我在回复中只讲了4点,其实人脑和电脑的区别还不仅仅如此

最近我阅读了一本书一本不正经的大脑,这是美国德克萨斯大学奥斯汀分校,两位教授编写的科普著作,是由北京联合出版公司出版发行,201811

这本书有两篇文章,一篇是你要脑子究竟有什么用?”;另一篇是“你的脑子里有个套路?”前一是讲人的记忆,后一篇是讲人的回忆。作者认为,人的记忆、思考、回忆,是由大决定的。作者明确的指出人的大脑只占体重的3%,但是要消耗身体大约20%的能量,每天如此。大脑为什么会消耗这么多能量?这些能量是从哪里来的?供给人脑的能量为什么能够持续工作100多年?电脑行吗?不行!这两者之间有根本的区别!

这本书的作者从人的进化谈起,想用这种方法来回答上述问题笔者看后,仍然不能够回答这个问题。一个人是从母体里诞生的,也就是说人是由受精卵演变而来。可是父母又是从哪儿来的呢?生命的起源是什么?至今仍然不明确。作者从单细胞的祖先,寻找大脑的构造,以及环境的影响,由化学信号演变为电信号传播,以及基因的变化,试图说明怎样逐渐演变成为人,这种说法靠谱吗?如今地球上还有大多数生物,例如单细胞生物、植物和真菌,他们都没有大脑。有的大树的寿命超过人的寿命,从进化的角度,人到底为什么要有大脑?地球上同样也有没有大脑的人,难道这些人是没有进化的吗?不好解释。

作者由此延伸到记忆的问题,强调学习的重要,认为大脑能够存储过去的信息,根据这些存储的信息来预测未来发生的事情,因此有着生存的优势,而这些记忆是来自于大脑的各个区域。实际上有关记忆的问题,至今在学术界仍然没有统一的看法,到底是存储在微观层面还是宏观层面?没有定论。但是电脑的存储,尽管有多次的升级,人类都很清楚。但人类却找不到自己的记忆存储是不是跟电脑一样呢?找不到这种存储装置。那么回忆的话,也就不可能从这种存储装置中调出。却用了另外一种思维,这就是套路。有关这方面的解释完全是心理学的概念,这到底是心起作用,还是大脑起作用呢?作者没有指明。实际上这里面涉及到人的意识和思维,而机器则没有?这是人的大脑与机脑的另一个根本区别。尽管现在有人提出方案,让机器具有思维,能否实现这是另外一回事儿。如果能够让机器的眼睛也能够流出伤感的眼泪,那就表明机器具有情感,这可能吗?

总之,我不认为人的大脑接近于机脑!




http://blog.sciencenet.cn/blog-1339385-1218668.html

上一篇:不见光的松果体为何受光调控?------人眼新问(6)
下一篇:人工“疼感”与人的疼感是一回事吗?

0

该博文允许注册用户评论 请点击登录 评论 (0 个评论)

数据加载中...

Archiver|手机版|科学网 ( 京ICP备07017567号-12 )

GMT+8, 2020-4-5 05:20

Powered by ScienceNet.cn

Copyright © 2007- 中国科学报社

返回顶部